Hyundai does more crazy shit...

"JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t" (jawzx2)
07/09/2020 at 11:54 • Filed to: Hyundai, CrazyIdeas

Has Hyundai gone completely insane, or are they genius?

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

‘cuz the Germans and French (and Italians and Swe de s) tried this already... Then again, computers and electric clutch actuators have gotten way better since then.

DISCUSSION (36)

Future next gen S2000 owner > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:03

This may be a first on a production car but I think racecars have used hand clutches for awhile.

Edit: read th e article. It’s not a hand operated clutch.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:05

What’s the point? Who wants a manual but doesn’t want a clutch? Unless it’s substantially cheaper than an automatic. The tech for sensing when you want to shift sounds unreliable.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:06

Eh, j ust get a DCT instead. Drive a manual using the clutch if you want to drive a manual- that is part of the experience

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Future next gen S2000 owner
07/09/2020 at 12:07

No , it’s not a first on road cars (unless you consider the fact that it’s all comp uter controlled instead of vacuum or electromechanical like the Porsche/VW and Citroen systems were, makes it “first” of it’s type ) it’s just a very interesting/WTF choice.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:07

At that point isn’t just a paddle shift?

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
07/09/2020 at 12:09

Right? Hence the title of my post... I mean it removes the need for the computer to also move the mechanical gear linkages, and reduces the complexity vs. A DCT, but it's still an odd choice.

E90M3 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:10

So something like the Sensonic transmission?

https://www.autonews.com/article/19980216/ANA/802160766/saab-shelves-sensonic-transmission

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1994-05-12-9405110114-story.html

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Future next gen S2000 owner
07/09/2020 at 12:11

That would be kind of sweet if it basically was a trigger that actuated the clutch...but the way it is described as an “intention sensor” makes it seem much more complicated than that.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
07/09/2020 at 12:12

It’s such a strange thing to bring to market in today’s world... I s uppose the entire point may be to lower the entry price of an “automatic” transmission to appeal to developing markets (Like India, where it will arrive first)... But then again, traditional torque-converter automatics are not very expensive these days...

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:12

I could understand it being cheaper than a DCT but I don’t see how it’s cheaper than a torque converter. I wonder if people outside of North America have the same skepticism about ‘new technology’.

Future next gen S2000 owner > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:12

It kinda reads like a different take on the early automated single clutches. Instead on having PRND you now are forced into only having manual mode.

Tekamul > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:12

It’s just another flappy paddle variant. Either you pick the gears and control the engagement with a limb and a brain, or you don’t.

If it's cheaper/more durable than a torque converter fine, use it to replace automatics. Then provide a variety with a manual clutch.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
07/09/2020 at 12:12

Sort of? Except the shift lever is still actually moving the gears...

kanadanmajava1 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:14

Ferrari used similar system in their Montial T as an option in the late 80's . A pparently it worked a lot better than you could assume. The shifter had a force transducer and it operated the clutch using corresponding speed.

Saab used a a variant of the system in the 90's too.

A p icture from eBay:

Kinja'd!!!

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > E90M3
07/09/2020 at 12:16

Yup , pretty much like that. Or also the older vacuum and electromechanical systems from Porsche/VW and Citroen

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
07/09/2020 at 12:17

Yeah, that's what I thought... Torque-converter automatics are not expensive these days...

Chariotoflove > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:21

I think I could maybe find a use for this.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > kanadanmajava1
07/09/2020 at 12:22

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Ferrari version. I knew about Sensonic (S aab) and also the Porsche/VW Sportmatic and Citroen Sensodrive... but making a new one seems like such a strange move.

CobraJoe > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
07/09/2020 at 12:28

It sounds very weird to drive a stick without a clutch, but I think I’d rather have the stick than the paddles.

I’ve driven paddles (on a subaru CVT, which was surprisingly decent ), and it’s too disconnected. I often forgot what gear I was in, often downshifted or upshifted when I really shouldn’t have, or just left it in “drive” instead.

A stick would solve many of those problems, it’s directly moving gears in the transmission, so it would feel connected, It would be easy to tell what gear you are in, and you have to be more intentional about down shifting or up shifting.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:29

If it had a clutch pedal, but could be switched to automated clutch engagement then I would kind of get it? You can use it as a manual but if someone needs it to be automatic it can mostly be automatic. Toss anyone the keys and they can likely drive it wherever they need to go. Otherwise I have no idea what the use case is for this thing

Thomas Donohue > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
07/09/2020 at 12:30

Not sure why they wou ld go through the trouble of having a hydraulic clutch in that setup.

Instead, using a sequential/DCT with a traditional H-pattern shifter (vs paddles or a floor mounted front-back sequential shifter) could have a market for folks that want old-school feel, albeit without the clutch. Going from fourth to second would just blip it down two gears when you made the change, unless it was going to over-rev, in which case it would beep/buzz/shake and tell you that you’re a dummy.

Not for everyone, but I could see this being a retro-feature so you could have one hand on the wheel, and the other on the shifter, selecting the gear you want. And I would think this would be a somewhat easy option for a manufacturer to add while still using the same transmission.

I kinda expect Porsche to offer this at some point, would probably be a big selling option in 911 convertibles.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:30

Renault did this on some regular econoboxes back in the 90's, too.

CobraJoe > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
07/09/2020 at 12:30

What’s the point? Who wants a manual but doesn’t want a clutch?

Me, when I was learning to drive a manual at 14. I loved the shifting, but hated the precision necessary for the clutch.

Considering the low take rate for manuals today, it sounds like a feasible plan to get more early drivers interested in driving a stick.

Thomas Donohue > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:32

I elaborated above, but I think it’s better to just do it with a DCT and a floor-mounted H-pattern shifter. Saves the cost of developing two transmissions, instead just gives you the option of paddle-shifters or retro shifter on the floor.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
07/09/2020 at 12:33

I knew Peugeot had also used the Citroën-developed system, but I didn't know Renault did it too... Then again, France...

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Thomas Donohue
07/09/2020 at 12:36

An interesting notion ... I think Hyundai’s point is that this is simpler/cheaper than a DCT, but for Porsche, what you propose sounds less silly.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Thomas Donohue
07/09/2020 at 12:38

It doesn’t have to be hydraulic. Hyundai also has a press release talking about this tech as eliminating the hydraulic components for a clutch. Another oppo posted it. That way you can have the clutch pedal but it’s not necessary.

I agree with you about doing an H pattern DCT, but it might be hard to make the engagement not feel like a video game (which doesn’t seem to be a concern for manufactures). I think a lot of people would pay for the illusion of driving a manual, without any of the learning/inconvenience

I have TONS of times where I would have liked to have been able to loan my car to someone who can’t drive stick. I’m constantly annoyed that I only know 1 person who can even move my cars. Lots of households that don’t buy a manual because both people have to be able to drive both of the cars (stupid imo, learn manual or don’t drive the other car, don’t take that away from your s/o, but that’s just me)

Probably less of an issue in India, but plenty of places have licensing matched to transmissions so you can have a license for only automatics. I think those auto-only people could still drive this.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > CobraJoe
07/09/2020 at 12:42

I wonder if Hyundai is planning to bring this trans to North America. That seems like a feasible reason: market it to #theyouth in tiny but fun cars they can actually afford (like <9000$ new crap can) and hope they build brand equity. They could also hope to apply it in commercial situations where you want joe the delivery driver to select gears, but you don’t want them roasting the clutch ‘because it’s smoother’

Thomas Donohue > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:55

I think that is where I’m confused....would it still be cheaper for them to develop two transmissions, one auto and one manual (with additional complexity)?

Or just build one auto and have different ways to change gears? Even without DCT, just do a ‘tiptronic’ with an H-shifter.

I hereby patent this as the ‘TomTronik’ tranzmisshun.

Kinja'd!!!

kanadanmajava1 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
07/09/2020 at 12:59

Finding markets for these could be challenging. I would like to try driving one but I’m quite unlikely new Hyundai purchaser.

Thomas Donohue > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
07/09/2020 at 13:00

Would be easy to also transition to electric cars. The ‘joy-stick-shift’ would merely adjust the power applied when you step on the accelerator.

In first ‘gear’, you get full acceleration. Less so than when doing 45 in ‘fourth’, you only get 20% of the torque.

It would certainly keep some of us entertained while driving an EV!

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Thomas Donohue
07/09/2020 at 13:21

I would probably buy a new EV if it was offered with an honest to god manual. I would rather a less powerful engine attached to gear ratios than I would a simulated trans that changed the engine output, but I understand the absence of a trans saves manufacturers a lot of money. I agree a simulated trans would be good in EVs, especially if it becomes a regular ‘Put it in D’ auto for those who want that

Thomas Donohue > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
07/09/2020 at 13:27

The next gen Porsche 718 should have a base level EV/Hybrid like that..... E lectic/gas/DCT/shifter......all the options!

(or, next-gen US Scirocco re- boot)

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Thomas Donohue
07/09/2020 at 13:29

“Look Greg! It’s just like your GT3 RS!”

*Greg closes garage door without breaking eye contact or his placid expression*

Thomas Donohue > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
07/09/2020 at 14:27

TomTronic SimShift (Console Shifter) : $1745

Enhanced Engine Sound Package : $995

Optional GT3 Sound Software: $495

SimShift in Deviated Alcantera Stitching: $895

Enhanced Vibration Package - SimShift: $1200

Retro Interior Package: $1250

———- Manual Crank Windows

———-Electronic push-top Door locks

-------Faux Leather Door Pulls

CobraJoe > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
07/09/2020 at 14:27

I really hope it comes to North America, it sounds like an interesting option. If they could make an extremely affordable but fun “youth” car in the under $10k range, they might just find a market that is very under served. That seems especially true in the upcoming years considering the current popularity of used cars being sold right now in that price range, and the drop in new car sales that would become cheap used cars.

The commercial angle sounds reasonable too, I wonder how much control a large truck would give up by automating the clutch?